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Talk:Maledight
I do tend to agree with User:S1m0nn that Brenwyr's maledight ability is not that far away from Jame's abilities. The difference seems to be that Brenwyr can affect inanimate matter, e.g. the table she curses with "Rot you!" in Mount Alban. Brenwyr's power is physical only, too; she doesn't seem to compel minds with it. What Jame does seems to be connected with the Voice of Command that Jame has. Most Highborn have it to some degree, it seems, and Lords more so (connected with the level of Shanir ability one needs to be a Lord?) but Jame appears to have it in spades, witness her ability to command Caldane. Tori has that ability too—e.g. when he commands his way into the Women's World in Gothregor and commands the Matriarchs to explain themselves in . Notably he also commands inanimate matter there; the gate is unlocked, even though it should have been locked. Perhaps it is part of being Knorth and Highlord, and perhaps it's another sign that Jame is supposed to co-rule with Tori that she has the power to command even Lords. Matthew Jude Brown 02:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC) :I take your point about Tori's ability to open a locked door. Jame does the same when she breaks through the 'grown together' door & doorjamb of Timmon's quarters on p48 of the MM edition of Rathorn. (We don't learn who created the seal, but the candidates are Adric and Tori.) :Jame does this by visualizing the master rune holding the door closed, 'teasing it apart in her mind', and then hitting it with her shoulders. :In contrast, Tori iirc just pulls on the door handle (ah, p 364 of SM) "While they were telling him that he couldn't enter, he put his left hand on the door which everyone had thought safely locked and pushed it open. ... 'Point of law,' Trishien said, looking up. 'Torisen Black Lord is master of this place, and our host. He can go where he pleases.'" :That looks to me like Tori's doing the same thing Jame did, but without the conscious intent or understanding Jame is able to bring to bear. In other words, Tori's act isn't a voice-activated power like the voice of command. He does indeed use voice later in the episode, when he demands the truth of the matriarchs, but his entry is something else. :If this is true, then the obvious inferences are 1) that Tori locked the door, having been the one who first sought to protect the Ardeth kendar, and 2) that Jame's ability is the more powerful, either because of (pick some) her conscious understanding; familiarity with the book; training in rune-reading; greater degree of Tyr-ridanity; or because a self-aware breaker trumps an unaware preserver. :S1m0nn 05:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC) ::I note also that Jame didn't bother undoing the sealing of the door to its jamb; instead, she simply shattered the entire door (how Regonereth of her ...) ::Tori is right now limited to the Shanir abilities that don't require any conscious input. What he can do is pretty amazing given that. It's noticeable also that he's constantly doing Shanir things without noticing; e.g. the repairing of the road under his horse's hooves. ( ). Matthew Jude Brown 06:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC) :::Tori isn't *quite* as unaware as he'd like to be. When Jame challenges his dismay re: defenestration (my copy isn't nearby, but this is when he meets Jame in Mother Ragga's hut while taking shelter from the lesser harvest windstorm), she asks him if he has ever made anyone do something they didn't want to. iirc he denies the charge, but guiltily recalls his interview with the matriarchs anyway. :::Speaking of voice of command (not in the shanir traits list, I notice), while flipping through my copy looking for one of the events above, I paused on Jame's meeting with Brenwyr. Jame asks if Brenwyr had ever tried to recall a curse. She says no, and than is immediately visited with the memory of the death of her mother. At the time, Aerulan told her to "forget what you cannot change", and she did -- until Jame's question breaks Aerulan's command. This, the Tori/matriarch story, and Kirien's interrogation of Index in Seeker's Mask are all clear examples of the same power (or maybe the "interrogate' function of the VoC) in action. :::S1m0nn 08:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC) ::::Yes, sometimes Tori is aware he's done something out of the ordinary afterwards - but he doesn't seem to my memory to have consciously set out to do something that requires Shanir abilities, either. It just happens. Granted, at least half the time, Jame does things instinctively too, but less so as things progress and she realizes her power. ::::Matthew Jude Brown 20:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC) :::::Well said. I don't think I can muster even a ghost of a quibble at the above. :::::I find, from a narrative mechanics POV, that I'm increasingly fascinated with the finesse with which PCH makes the times that Jame goes onto divine autopilot (if that's what it is) believable, without ever robbing her character of it's agency. Let's face it, this might not be a case of Deus ex Machina, but deus in viscus isn't far wrong. To a certain extent this is done by giving us an almost running commentary of Jame's reactions to her own actions. There are tons of examples, but I'll pick the death of the Randir Tempter. After the horrible death she has just dealt out, Jame follows her victim down, staying in contact because she feels a moral obligation to do what Rawneth* does not: to be with and witness the Tempter's death. :::::*Interestingly, Jame says that Bane and Rawneth are both 'hag riding'. Bane is able to stay with his mount until death, but then again he's already dead. I wonder if Rawneth doesn't because she can't without risking her own death? :::::S1m0nn 07:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::Very curious indeed. I hadn't thought of that angle at all. Matthew Jude Brown 09:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)